A Special Interview with Dr. Dicky Sofjan
Associate Professor of Inter-Religious Studies, Universitas Gadjah Mada (UGM)
On Saturday, February 28, 2026, Israel and the United States of America conducted a so-called “pre-emptive strike” against the Islamic Republic of Iran, killing the charismatic Supreme Leader of Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, his family and close associates. This special interview was conducted to explore the history and significance of the imposed war on Iran, and what it means religiously, spiritually and politically for the world in general and Indonesia specifically.
Associate Professor Dr. Dicky Sofjan teaches in the Inter-Religious Studies program in Universitas Gadjah Mada (UGM). He has conducted research on Iran and Shi’a Islam since his bachelors in the 1990s. He has spent several research periods in Iran and served as a visiting fellow at the Tehran International Studies and Research Institute (TISRI). Dr. Sofjan’s dissertation research and survey were conducted in Indonesia and Iran (i.e. Tehran, Qazvin, Qum and Esfahan). He has also spoken in a number of international conferences in Tehran and Qum. He is now a member of the General Assembly for the Proximity of Islamic Schools of Thought (Majma’ al-Taqrib bain al-Madzahib al-Islamiyyah). The following is the transcript of the interview:
Thank you very much, Dr. Sofjan, for giving your time for this interview.
It is indeed my honor and pleasure to be here and share my insights.
How has Persia or Iran contributed to human civilization and intellectual development in the world and Indonesia?
As a general observation, there does not seem to be sufficient knowledge and understanding about the Persian influence in the world, Southeast Asia and Indonesia. For one, not many people realize that Persia is one of the oldest and most advanced civilizations of the world with well recorded traces of ancient technology and sciences, architectural feat, high end arts, literature and poetry, philosophy, theosophy, ethics and various mystical forms of knowledge. It can also be argued that ancient Persia probably introduced co-ed i.e. mixed gender education, which of course was revolutionary at the time.
In the Islamic world, we know that many Persian scholars were some of the best and brightest. They mostly originated from what we now consider as the Persianate region, covering much more than modern-day Iranian geography and territory today. We are all too familiar with Muslim scientists in the post-late antiquity such as Al-Farabi, Avicienna (Ibn Sina), Averroes (Ibn Rusyd), Al-Khwarizmi, Al-Ghazali, Al-Biruni, including the authors of Shahihayn Bukhari and Muslim, known in the Sunni world for the largest compilation and codification of reliable ahadist (prophetic traditions).
Persia also contributed to the finest scholars in the field of Islamic theosophy and mysticism with the likes of Suhrawardi, Nasruddin al-Thusi, and Mullah Shadra. And of course, Jalaluddin Rumi is another famous Persian mystic poet, known universally both in the East and West for his couplets on Divine love. So, as much as some people may want to deny it, the Persians contributed vastly to the development of human civilization and the scientific revolution. Let us not forget this.
Of course, in Indonesian Pesantrens (Islamic traditional boarding schools), these names are all too familiar and close to the Muslims’ hearts and minds. However, many people previously assume they were all Arabs, while in fact they were Persians, or at least living in the Persianate region and were predominantly affected by Persian culture. As you can imagine, national territories, boundaries and citizenships at the time were not as clear cut as today.
Having said that, there has been a dearth of research and publications on the impact of Persian culture, intellectual tradition, published works as well as religious practices after modern Iran had converted to become quintessentially a Shi’a state in 1501 with the establishment of the Safavid dynasty. Although some would argue that the Shi’a influence came before this period, the impact of Shi’a religious thought, ethos and practice exponentially increased after the Islamic Revolution of Iran in 1978/1979 with the translation and publication of works by Ali Shariati, Murtadho Mutahhari, Muhammad Hussein Thabataba’i, Ayatollah Rohulah Khomeini and others.
How do you see the recent strike on Iran? Does this coincide with the historical pattern of relations between the Muslim world and the global order?
Well, first of all, is there such a thing as a “global order”? What does global order mean? On whose order? Since the victory of the Islamic Revolution, Iranians have always rejected both the bipolar system (previously between the United States of America and the Soviet Union) and much less the unipolar system, with the downfall of the Berlin Wall and the fragmentation of the Soviet Union. The Islamic Republic’s principle has always been based on the Quranic precept of: Laa syarqiyah, walaa gharbiyah (neither East nor West), which was derived from An-Nur, verse 35 in the Quran. Meaning that Islam as the straight path (shirath al-mustaqim) requires total independence and complete autonomy from oppression and domination.
As the world witnessed, the attack on Iran was unprovoked. Iran allowed Israel and the US to attack its country first, which resulted in the death of Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei. This again showed that Iran was implementing an Islamic principle that no Muslim should ever be the aggressor, and that offensive jihad is not permitted by Islam. Rather, defensive jihad is compulsory. Meaning that if a country is attacked, it is the duty for the government and all its citizens to defend it, even if it would cost them their lives.
Thus, Iranians have every right to defend themselves from any form of aggression from external parties. Even during the long and brutal eight-year war with Iraq, history recorded that it was Saddam Hussein with the help of its Arab neighbors and Western allies, including the US, that tried to annex and control Shatt el-Arab. It was also Saddam Hussein, who employed biological and chemical weapons directed at the Iranians.
But we need to see the larger picture of this attack by Israel and the US as part and parcel of a pattern of hostile behavior that combines the brute forces of colonialism, capitalism and white supremacy, all in one package. The way I see it, last week’s attack on the government and people of Iran was illegitimate and uncalled for. But it also divulged the imperialistic nature and tendency of the so-called global (dis)order. And because of that, Iran has the right to resist and retaliate in kind.
Remember this goes back to the British imperial power that backed the Reza Shah regime in the early 20th century. And then came Mohammad Mossadegh, who was democratically elected as prime minister of Iran in the early 1950s. Mossadeh was dethroned by way of political intrigue and coup d’état configurated by MI6 and CIA for wanting to nationalize the British Anglo-Iranian Petroleum Company, which did not serve the interest of the Iranian people.
So, again, one can see the convergence of colonialism, capitalism, and white supremacy enmeshed into one movement that essentially drives the so-called global ‘order’ in the contemporary world. Thus, the black and brown people and other subaltern nations are expected to simply succumb and capitulate to the Western politics of domination.
How does the martyrdom of Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei playout in the context of theological symbolism and political mobilization?
Shi’a Islam is quintessentially an ideology of the oppressed. It is founded and rooted on the historical injustices faced by the Progeny of the Holy Prophet of Islam Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon Him and his Progeny). Therefore, the Iranian Shi’a spirit and strength are largely based on their imagination and collective memory of the Shi’a sacred history, on the oppression and insufferable treatment faced by the Progeny of the Prophet, more specifically in this case Imam Ali ibn Thalib, Fatimah az-Zahra, Imam Hasan ibn Ali and Imam Hussain ibn Ali during the post-Prophetic period.
It is appropriate to recall that Imam Ali, the revered first Spiritual Leader of the Shi’a Lineage after the Prophet, was murdered while praying on his mattress in the holy month of Ramadhan, the same month that Ayatollah Khamenei was assassinated. It is also noteworthy that the Spiritual Leader was also killed ruthlessly with some members of his own household, including his granddaughters, which is reminiscent of the massacre of Imam Hussein, his household and companions in the battlefields of Karbala (now Iraq).
Thus, the current and ongoing circumstances in Iran are conjuring up the kinds of imageries of the sacred past that can be a powerful tool for socioreligious and political mobilization. Such imageries will inadvertently but most likely evoke deep sentiments in the hearts and minds of millions of both Shi’a and Sunni Muslims outside of Iran. We are already seeing this unfold in Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, India and others.
So the resilience of the Iranian nation can be attributed to Muslim collective memory that places emphasis on Karbala and the persecution of Imam Hussein?
This is an interesting point. You see, there is a major difference between a Sunni and Shi’a Muslim baby. When a Sunni baby is born, he sees majestic palaces, shiny thrones, and the powerful caliphs. But when a Shi’a baby is born, he is confronted with the Karbala complex, imbued by the tragic death and the decapitation of the head of their Spiritual Leader, Imam Hussein. He sees persecution, injustice and resistance. That in itself distinguishes the social imaginaries of Muslims. Thus, while Sunni Muslims are more attuned to pro-establishment, Shi’a Muslims are intrinsically acclimatized to opposition and resistance against the powers that be. In my mind, the current political constellation in the Middle East reflects exactly this imagery.
This is what the US President Donald Trump, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and most Western leaders do not understand. To them, such mental models are unfathomable and moreover irrational, and therefore negligible and inconsequential. That is what we are dealing with here. The Karbala complex will not fade as modernization takes precedence or when economic prosperity reigns. When a nation is imbued by the Karbala complex, no provocation or instigation of war will ever deter them. This is what makes Iran different from its Arab counterparts. It also makes Iran somewhat unpredictable, but never irrational.
Many observers see the Israel-US conflict with Iran as a result of competition for strategic interests in the Middle East. We have even read the official statements of the Indonesian Foreign Ministry that seem to confirm this assumption. How do you see the Israeli-American aggression against Iran? How can we understand this aggression from a wider lens?
Again, we have to put everything within the larger context of colonialism, capitalism, and white supremacy and the ‘evils’ that derive from them. The Epstein files, which Trump and his Republican administration is trying hard to suppress, reveal that many Western—mostly white—leaders, politicians, princes, techno-billionaires, celebrities and prominent academics have been involved in the most vile and cruel forms of child rape, torture, cannibalism, murder and sex trafficking of young girls and boys around the world for decades.
The Epstein files also corroborate the longstanding accusations that have been circulating that the Western elite class comprises immoral, degenerate, and bloodthirsty people, who have no sympathies for ordinary human lives, much less people outside their breed. This has been one of the reasons why the so-called “preemptive strike” against Iran is unpopular. This is due to the new realization that the Western elite class has an agenda that is in no way consistent with “we, the people”, and the values of democracy, human rights and dignity.
What is even more problematic is that now Pete Hegseth, Trump’s Secretary of War, has decided that the war against Iran is to usher in the “Armageddon”, and that military commanders were told that this imposed war was “all part of Divine plan” to pave the way for the Second Coming of Jesus. Think about this for a while. Think about the naivety for a moment, and the dangers that lie for the whole world if such insanity and derangement were to continue and be given a political platform.
Is the Israeli factor in the war affecting the narrative on the solidarity of the Islamic world, considering the longstanding conflict with Palestine? Do the responses from the Muslim world tend to be emotional, symbolic or strategic?
First and foremost, is there an “Islamic world” out there? Has there been any so-called Islamic world that was ever united in solidarity against anything of late? I honestly think it does not exist. What exist are “Islamicate” societies and countries, borrowing Marshall Hodgson’s lingo, to describe the cultural, sociopolitical context they are inherently in.
This current war against Iran is no doubt an extension of the Zionist settler colonial project, which aspires to create the “Greater Israel” that would extend its borders to include the whole of the “Occupied Territories” of Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. A recent statement by the US Ambassador to Israel US Mike Huckabee, who was interviewed by popular American podcaster and journalist Tucker Carlson, said, “It would be fine if they [Israelis] took it all.” Expectedly, all of the leaders of the Arab countries felt a moment of “the Brutus effect”, betrayed by the insensitive comment by Huckabee, given the political alliances and military cooperation between the US and the Arab countries.
This goes to show that the US is making the biddings for Israel, and that many of the high-ranking officials in the Trump administration, politicians in Congress, tech billionaires as well as media executives are all under the influence of the powerful Zionist lobby. I mean AIPAC (American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee) is just one such lobbying organization that aspire for the Greater Israel project.
Regarding the responses from the Muslim world, no doubt the 2.5-year genocide in Gaza has caused resentment and condemnation from many Arab quarters. Yet, we are still seeing a lot of them collaborating with Israel, and quietly condoning the ongoing crime against humanity. Thus, the main concern for these Arab regimes is their very own existence and survivability. Because currently most, if not all, of the Arab countries in the region are being bombed by Iran for hosting the many US military bases, which are perceived as an existential threat to the survival of the Islamic Republic.
What are the lessons learned from this war for Muslims and Indonesia?
I do hope that the Arab countries and the Muslim people in the region begin to do some soul searching, and fully realize that their national security and defense should never be relied upon or subcontracted to others. Sovereignty and autonomy matter, and that building national defense capabilities is an imperative for every nation.
Having said that, there is a lot to learn from Iran for the Arab and Muslim countries, including Indonesia. The one thing I regret is that President Prabowo Subianto has decided to exit the longstanding position of Indonesia’s foreign policy from being a non-aligned leader of the Global South to promptly becoming a member of the Board of Peace, which Trump had recently established before he decided to strike Iran at the behest of Israel. This will become a political liability for Indonesia, regardless of the potential economic gains, if any, that Indonesia will enjoy.
Even as we speak, the Government of Indonesia (i.e. the President and Foreign Minister) has yet to officially send its deepest condolences for the passing away of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei as Iran’s Supreme Leader. Such position will be remembered. Meanwhile, Indonesia for many years has sought to transfer critical technologies from the Islamic Republic, most notably on advanced medical, nuclear and rocket sciences. I guess this will all be undermined, given the policy preference to align with Trump.
I hope that the Muslim community as a whole will be able to see issue beyond the ikhtilaf (distinction) between Sunni and Shi’a Islam, and learn a thing or two about geopolitics and international affairs. Through my teaching, research and membership in the General Assembly for the Proximity of Islamic Schools of Thought (Majma’ al-Taqrib bain al-Madzahib al-Islamiyyah), I will do my utmost to bridge an understanding between the two Islamic schools of thought in Indonesia and the region, insha Allah.
Thank you very much for your time, Dr. Sofjan.
My pleasure. Thank you.
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m rizal abdi is an alumnus of the Religious and Cross-Cultural Studies Program (CRCS), UGM Graduate School, class of 2015. Read other articles by abdi here.
Header Photo: Anadolu/Aljazeera (2026)
